The Indianapolis Tapes: Kip McKean

The Indianapolis Tapes: Kip McKean

                        INTERNATIONAL CHURCH OF CHRIST                   A/K/A BOSTON CHURCH OF CHRIST MOVEMENT                            AUDIO TAPE  TRANSCRIPT   Indianapolis Church of Christ Kip McKean   3/17/94   Transcribed by Carol Giambalvo   Tape 1 of 2  Side 1   Found our way off the plane.  You know how that is.  And it was just blow  away to see 20-25 disciples right there, waiting for us.  No matter where you  come from or who you are, when you see another bunch of brothers and sisters  there, you get revived, refreshed, fired up.  I tell you something, it really  meant so much to me, all the people who turned out this morning.  (amen)  Thank you very much for the extremely warm reception this morning, tonight.   It's great to be in the kingdom of God, amen?  (amen)  (applause)   You know, being in the kingdom is being a part of the gospel, being a part of  good news, amen?  As you well know, for the past several weeks, the focus has  been on the nation of Norway with all the Olympics.  Well, the Lord got his  attention even more on Norway right now because we had our first church  service in Oslo on March 7th.  We sent over 7 disciples.  The leaders were  trained in Los Angeles and with 7 disciples, they had 70 at their first church  service.  Is that awesome?  The Lord is moving.   Secondly, we got great news from Katmandu and Nepal.  Of course, you remember  I shared a little bit about what was going on right there.  That's even been  sent out for the brothers and sisters there in India.  And they just had their  second baptism and this is only their 4th week in an extremely charged  atmosphere.  They have already had newspaper articles against them.  As you  well know, it's a very charged atmosphere with the Muslim element right there,  as well as the Hindu element. But the brothers and sisters are preaching the  word, amen?  (amen)  (applause)   Also, we got incredible news.  Right now it's kind of amazing.  When the  Lord's work needs to go into another nation, the Lord starts working in the  hearts of the leaders in that nations and in the nations surrounding it.  And  I don't know if you have read anything about what has been going on in the  Middle East.  Of course, you well know we have had our challenges there.   First in the work there in Cairo, Egypt, as well as the work in Amman, Jordan.   That's really challenging persecution- wise.  But we have been praying for  the Lord to open up the right door so we can have an incredible work in the  Middle East, particularly a work that can be our mother church there, our  Antioch for the entire Middle East.  Well, one of the nations in the Middle  East is Lebanon.  And in Lebanon, it is a unique nation because it is 50%  Muslim and 50% Christian.  And it is the only Middle East nation like that.   All the rest are very, very, very much Muslim.  And, therefore, Muslim  dominated. And the laws are dominated that way.  Well this particular nation  obviously, it is 50/50 and the government even has the laws where one has to  be quote "a Christian" and the other has to be a Muslim.  It's an incredible,  unique situation.  Well, Americans have not been allowed in there for 18  years.  Is that incredible?  And even now, it still hasn't been lifted.  But,  of course, in the work in Boston, we converted a young doctor, a cardiologist,  Dr. Mo Bishara.  And not only does he happen to be American, but he is also  Egyptian.  It's always good to have that second passport.  You know what I'm  saying?    And, you know, Paul did that with his Roman passport and everything.   (laughter)  And we have been really praying for the Lord to open up.  Well,  here's what happened.  We tried to get a church established there and we  couldn't because "the other denominations opposed us."  And they don't want  any other "groups".  So, through relationships and through the special people  who were converted in the church in Boston, we got to have relationships with  some of the upper people in the government there.  To make a long story short,  instead of getting a church, we simply got an agreement to be able to have, if  you will, kind of an association, a fellowship, there.  The only thing we  can't do is marry people.  But we can't do that in the other Middle East  nations anyway.  And so this association will have, obviously, a benevolent  element to it in reaching out and helping the poor, which is something that we  want to do already, amen?  (amen)   But they are going to allow us as the church to meet there and to "preach  what we believe," amen? (amen)  Now here's the amazing thing about it.  It  was really against all odds that we would be able to get the association.  But  to make a long story short, we got the approval for the association.  Two days  later, the legislature of Lebanon passed a rule, a law, not only banning  future churches but even new associations, associated with churches.  So,  within 2 days, just in the nick of time -- of course we know it was the Lord,  amen?  (amen)  We now have an association in Beirut, Lebanon.  Is that  awesome?  (applause)    Of course, the Lord continues to do incredible things in Mexico City.  The  church is only 6 years old there and they are having now 1500 at church.   (amen)  And they have already sent out 3 other churches in Mexico.  And, of  course, we're having special plans right now, one of the brothers that we  baptized in L.A. about a year ago, Atilla Gondola, is from Mexico City.  And  he will be leaving L.A. this June and be planting a church in Guatemala City  in a few months and then he will be assuming the leadership of the Mexico City  church as a national.  Is that flat awesome?  The Lord is really blessing in  everything.   The church in Manila is going great.  It's going blow away.  They are having  now almost 3000 every Sunday morning.  They are just 4 years old as a church.   Is that incredible?  (amen)    The church in Russia is going great.  It's great to hear about the work in  Moscow.  Of course, Derek Wooten is related to Shawn Wooten.  He's the  brother.  Shawn Wooten leads the church in Kiev. And Kiev, already this year,  has grown 150 disciples.  Is that incredible?  (amen)  The first 10 weeks of  1994, you feel a little challenged by that there?  (yes)  It's so incredible.   Any called the other day and he said, for our collective 6 churches, and of  course, all that work started a little over 3 years ago with just a group of  17 disciples, but that collective 6 churches is just one church in the Lord.  (that's right)  Every Sunday morning now they are having 6,000 people at  church.  Is that blow away or not?  (amen, applause)  And the Moscow church is  the largest church of any kind in the entire Commonweal of Independent States.   Truly God is being glorified.  (amen)  And Christianity is being defined.   (applause)    The Lord is working in L.A., praise the Lord.  Already this year we have  grown 349 disciples in the first 10 weeks and we're having close to 6,000  every Sunday morning.  The Lord is just working in tremendous and fantastic  ways there.   Now, we're really looking forward to having all the Indianapolis church come  visit with us in June. (amen)  And, if you don't know, we have invited the  entire Indianapolis church to be with us June 11 and 12th.  On the 11th, which  is Saturday, we have invited all the churches in California and in that far  western US to come to LA and we're all going to be going to an amusement park  there not very far.  And so there will probably be somewhere between 7,000- 10,000 disciples.  (wow)  Is that going to be hot?  You talk about having a  lot of fun, we're going to have fun.  Then the next day, we're going to be  meeting in the LA sports arena where Clippers play and everything.  They need  a few prayers right at this moment.  Well, the Pacers do to, so don't let's  get honkey about it. (oooooh)   So it's really going to be incredible is number one, we're going to be  sending off the Saigon, Vietnam mission team.  We're also going to be sending  off   (  name inaudible  ) to Guatemala City to plant that church.  We are  also going to be sending off prayerfully, and maybe praying about it, given  the association's license, the Beirut team.  Is that going to be awesome in  Lebanon?  (amen)  And, of course, the San Francisco church is going to be  sending off a second time the Fresno team.  Now that's going to be flat  awesome, amen?  (applause)   So, God is moving in incredible, incredible ways in the kingdom of God.   Now, getting on with what we're here about, I just first of all want to say,  hey, I kept all the promises I made you two weeks ago:        1.   I'm back.  Amen?  (amen)      2.   We found the money to replace the  mission fund that ordinarily the Indianapolis church would supply, which is  $246,000.  That is going to be supplied by another church.  (amen) Isn't that  incredible how the kingdom?  And we want you to use the money that you would  have used for the missions fund, to save it, buy that airplane ticket and come  on out and be with us in L.A. for that special weekend the 10th, 11th and 12th  of June.  (amen)  To be able to really see what God is doing around the world  in His movement, amen?  (amen) Secondly, along the financial lines, I don't  know if you realize how much time and energy, but money, particularly the  Chicago church has spent to fly everybody in and have everybody stay, get  these meeting rooms.  I really first of all want to commend the Mantles for  an incredible job that they have done, amen?  (applause)   I told, last time after we finished the meeting, we were done at about 2:00  a.m. and we were trying to find something to eat.  And that was a little  difficult at that time.  But we all gathered in one of the brother's rooms and  I'll never forget it.  John's son, Jeff, was there.  He had come from the  church I think in Syracuse.  And he had come all the way to be with his dad.   And I get all teary eyes thinking that some day Shawn and Erin are going to  come, stay with me, you know.  Fight the Lord's battles.  I mean, that's  really just great to think about how awesome it is to have your kids in the  kingdom, amen?  (amen)   And I appreciate so much the men who serve as elders and the awesome wives of  the elders that we have.  The Brumleys have done an outstanding job in  Chicago.  It's great so much having the relationship with the Brumley's  through the years for the work there in San Diego and now here in Chicago.   And that's what this thing is all about is relationships.  (amen)  And then,  of course, the tremendous lead evangelist and his wife that you have there,  the Drabots.  They're doing an awesome job, amen?  (applause)  But these  people, they have gladly sacrificed their time, their energy and even the  money of the church that has really begun to put a pressure on the Chicago  church.  So we have been doing a lot of work in L.A.  We have also found about  $150,000 to give to the Chicago church because that is what all this has cost.     And so we are going to be giving that money to the Chicago church to make  sure the Lord's work is not hindered there.  (amen)   And I want you to know here in Indianapolis how much other people are  sacrificing for you.  But I appreciate the great Chicago church, amen?  (amen)   And the last promise that I made was okay, we're going to send ten people  from the L.A. church to Indianapolis.  And we have all ten people ready to go.   We have a Friday night devotional tomorrow night and those 10 people are  going to be introduced to the L.A. church.  And these people are very, very  special people.  I'll read their names just so you can pray about them.   Terrance Williams, Sophia Simmons, James Williams, Maria(?) Olsen, Dan and  Kristin Downs, Jill Underhill, Dan Moritz, Evelyn Seager and Joe Burnett.  Six  of these men and women are Bible Talk Leaders.  The other four are not only  BTL's, they are discipleship group leaders.  (amen)  And I can tell you, I  went back and I talked to the L.A. church and said, "Hey, here's what is going  on in Indianapolis.  We need to really get behind our brothers and sisters and  send 10 BTL's there."  Everyone was really fired up.  Now to show you the kind  of strength that is, ordinarily for the LA. church to send 10 BTL's anyplace,  that is the kind of people we surround a mission team leader with to plant a  new church in a new nation.  So you need to understand, whoa, that's the kind  of sacrifice -- not that we have to make -- but we want to make because we  want to make the Lord's work here in Indianapolis to be more awesome than it  has ever been, amen?  (amen)  (applause)   And on top of that, I heard that the announcement has already been made about  the Weger's coming and leading the church here.  (applause)  Kind of  interesting, one of their sons, Luke, and I have the same birthdate.  So we  always keep up with each other and everything.   But I want you to know how much of a sacrifice this has become.  They have  five kids.  I have three. Now three outnumbers me and Elena.  That's a  challenge.  Five is more than three.  As I see it, that's a greater challenge.   I appreciate these people's hearts.  (yes)  They've got a great work going in  Chicago.  They only moved months ago from San Diego.  And when you've got  kids, that's a challenge.  And, in the Lord I feel comfortable sharing a few  things.  Many years ago, Judy used to suffer a little with stuttering and some  of the children have a problem with that, particularly when they have to go to  a new environment.  And so, for the sacrifice to say "Hey, we're going to be  moving down to Indianapolis.  Well, oh, oh, we might have to go through this  again."  That has not been an issue because we had to get the strongest  evangelist we could find to be able to lead this great church.  (amen)   And you say, "well, why do you do it?"  I want you to know what is being done  in the kingdom for your sake.  You say, "well, I feel bad about it."  I don't  want you to feel bad about it.  I do want you to be humbled by it.  Saying,  "wow, I mean, you guys are sacrificing $450,000 from the missions contribution  and $150,000 -- you are sacrificing 10 BTL's -- that's the kind of group you  send to a new nation to start a new church.  The Chicago church is sacrificing  the Weger's and they are personally willing to put on the line the welfare of  their children?"  Yes.  And the Chicago church is also going to be sending 30  other disciples.  (amen)  That's incredible, guys.   I don't want you to feel down about it.  I want you to feel humble.  I want  you to feel inspired. (amen)  Because, you see, it's not like we're giving  away to another church.  We are one church, one kingdom, one brotherhood,  amen?  (amen, applause)   I talked to John and Dave today earlier.  You know what I think is going to  be a good thing?  I'd like to suggest after you get things cranking here --  and they will be cranking -- (amen) is that I would like to suggest that you,  the Indianapolis church, send 5 people to Chicago and 5 people to L.A.  You  say, "well, why?  Do they have to be leaders?"  No.  I want you to send 5  people there because I want you -- because you know how it is in the kingdom,  everybody calls everybody and everything -- I want you to know the people  there in LA.  Is it really as awesome as they say it is?  "Oh, yeah, brother,  it's awesome, man.   They are hard line!"  "Well, is Ron Drabot really as  great a preacher up there in Chicago?"  "Well, I haven't heard Ron, but Byron  is sure awesome."    Because I think we've got -- one of the things that has been injured here is  the trust issue.  (amen, that's right)  And I totally trust the 10 disciples  from LA that you're going to take care of them. (amen)  I know the Chicago  brothers totally trust you're going to take care of the 30 from Chicago and  particularly the Weger's now that you have been sensitized to their  situation.  Amen?  (amen)   On the other hand, I want you to have some of your friends out there in  Chicago and LA after this instance to verify, "hey, it really is awesome."   A  lot of rumors have been circulating.  A lot of things that have supposedly  been said, seen and heard is garbage.   But I just want to some of your Indianapolis -- some Hoosiers -- to be able  to testify.  As I shared last time, I am a Hoosier.  I was born here in  Indianapolis.  (amen, cheers)  But bottom line, I think that would be a  gesture of good will.  We're not trying to get leaders or anything like this.   I just would like you to send 5 disciples to each place so they can testify,  so they can burn up the fax lines, so they can burn up the phone lines saying,  "hey, it really is awesome here in the kingdom of God." You've got great  brothers and sisters in LA, you've got great brothers and sisters in Chicago.   Hey, we really are one in the Lord, amen, church?  (applause)   Now, you say, "Okay, is that the lesson?"  No, that was just the  introduction.  You haven't gotten the scriptures out yet and I believe in  using the scripture.  (amen)  We're going to ask at this time Dr. Al Baird --  we know him as Al.  He's one of the original elders up in the Boston church.   He's now an elder in the LA church.  He's also the World Sector Leader,  formerly of the Middle East and now of the Media/Law Sector of our whole  worldwide ministry.  Al is going to come at this time and share the letter  that is going to be sent out to all 149 churches in the movement around the  world about what has happened in Indianapolis.  And that will pave the way for  me to come and share with you from the scriptures the parallels to what has  happened here and what has happened in the Bible. Al Baird.   Al Baird:      Hey, listen carefully.    To:  All the disciples in the International Church of Christ around the world:   From:     Kip McKean, Al Baird, Marty Fuqua, Ron Drabot and the elders of the  Chicago Church of           Christ   This announcement is to inform you of the actions of Ed Powers, evangelist of  the Indianapolis Church of Christ, which have resulted in part of that  congregation being led astray from God's movement.   On Sunday night, February 27, 1994, Ed called a meeting of the Indianapolis  Church in which he asked for and received the majority vote of confidence from  the congregation in a move to separate itself from the International Churches  of Christ.  This meeting followed his having convinced the staff of the  congregation to support the move.  It is clear from subsequent conversations  with several members that the congregation in general did not understand the  implications of the vote.    Ed called Marty Fuqua, World Sector Leader responsible for the Western United  States, after the vote was taken to inform Marty of the action.  At no time  previous to the vote did Ed let any of those over him in the Lord know of his  intent nor of his discontent with the movement.  This is especially surprising  in light of the fact that Ed attended a two day meeting of the U.S. West  evangelists and ministry leaders in Los Angeles just two weeks before this  action occurred.   After Ed refused to allow Marty to speak to the Indianapolis church and even  refused to meet with Marty, and because the staff fully supported Ed's action,  both Ed and the staff were marked for the grievous sin of creating division in  the Lord's church.  (Romans 16:17)    We call on everyone to keep away from them except for those leaders who  continue to call them to repentance.  We praise God that already 3 of the  staff have repented and joined us.  (amen)   A special meeting was held in Indianapolis on Thursday night, March 3rd (just  two weeks ago) to announce the forming of the new Indianapolis International  Church of Christ, to address the issues and to ask questions.  Friends and  relatives who are disciples in other places were encouraged to go to  Indianapolis for this session and to invite as many members of the  Indianapolis church as they could.  The session was highly successful with  about 250 attendees, 70 of them were out of town disciples (many of you),  including Kip McKean, the World Sector Leaders Doug Arthur, Al Baird, Marty  Fuqua and Bob Gemple, as well as the evangelist, elders and wives from the  great Chicago church of Christ.  Ron Drabot disciples the work in the Midwest  of which Indianapolis is a part as Titus did Crete (Titus 1:5).  John and  Nancy Mantle are temporarily leading the new church.  Dave and Judy Weger will  lead as soon as they can move there from Chicago.   A growing number, 200 so far, of the former congregation have indicated they  want to be a part.  We are confident that in spite of this sad event echoing  Korah and his rebellion, God is triumphing and the church is being  strengthened, even as Los Angeles is sending 10 Bible Talk Leaders and Chicago  is sending 30 disciples.   Pray for the new Indianapolis International Church of Christ and its  leadership.  Pray that Ed and the staff will repent.  Upon the repentance, we  will be willing and eager to welcome them back with open arms.  (amen)  Pray  that the good hearted, but misled, members of the former congregation will see  the truth and unite with us.  If you know people in Indianapolis or members  of the Indianapolis Church of Christ, as Jude taught, let us snatch them from  the fire.  Let us encourage them to come and visit and join us as the new  Indianapolis International Church of Christ.  And to God be the glory.   (amen, applause)   Kip McKean:         Let's hold hands and offer a prayer before we get into  the word of God.  Our Father in Heaven, we pray at this time that your Holy  Spirit descend on this assembly.  Father, I pray that where there is  blindness, where there is sentimentality, where there is hard heartedness,  let the Holy Spirit intercede and they will see what the scriptures teach.   Father, as the great leaders of the past have done, there comes a time when  the people don't need to take a vote, when the people simply need to decide  are they for God or are they for Belial?  Are they for God's leaders or for  those that oppose them?  Father, tonight I pray that the line is clear -- as  clear as it was and is in your word. Be near this time, Father, help me to  say it as if Jesus himself were saying it.  Help me to be able to use the  right scriptures to say it in exactly the right way so people can hear what  you want to hear.. Father, truly you are our hope, our rock, our strength,  our fortress.  Father, in you and you alone do we totally trust.  In the name  of Jesus that we pray.  Amen.  (amen)   Tonight is a call to decision.  I realize that some maybe here for the first  time.  You may not be able to make your decision tonight.  And so I beg you to  take down these scriptures and if you see that they are used inappropriately  or not of the Lord, then you forget anything that I would say.  I am of no  issue right here.  But if these scriptures truly parallel the situation that  we have faced these last few weeks, then this isn't some man preaching, this  is God speaking to us individually and collectively.  (that's right, come on)   So tonight does not end the time of discussion.  For those that may be here  for the first time and have questions, I am going to be hanging around the  fellowship, Al's going to be hanging around the fellowship.  A lot of the  leaders here in the Indianapolis church are going to be hanging around the  fellowship.  We're going to stay like we did the other night as long as  possible to answer your questions, one on one.  And it's not that we don't  want to answer -- and I know you're going to say "I know you went over it in  the sermon, but just run it by again."  Amen.  We'll try our very, very best  to be patient, to try to understand what is behind your question, what is on  your hearts.  On the other hand, tonight we have got to lay out from the  scriptures what God teaches about what has been done.   I want to start in 1 Cor. 10 with a scripture that I want you to see validate  parallel, not just from the New Testament of the Bible, but from the Old  Testament.  As I pointed out before, there are so many Church of Christ roots  in some of the teachings that Ed Powers has given.  And he has proclaimed  those to be new teachings, when, in fact, these are just old Church of Christ  traditions.  One of the main things is in the old line church of Christ is  "well, we're just folks in on the New Testament. We're just a New Testament  church."  I don't believe that for a moment.  I believe that we are a Bible  church.  (amen)  And there is a reason for some extent of why the NT is so  small.  It's because all of the principles in the OT, all the stories, all the  principles of God still hold.  Now there are some things, some covenants that  have passed.  We understand that from the book of Hebrews.  But the essence of  God has not changed.  (amen)   When the new covenant began on the day of Pentecost -- not when Jesus began  his ministry -- when the new covenant began on the day of Pentecost, it wasn't  like God repented and became a Christian and changed his personality or  character.  (no)  My Bible teaches me that God is the same yesterday, and  today and forever and on that have I staked my life.   Let's turn to  1 Cor. 10.  Notice how Paul starts to a disunified Corinthian  church.  "For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers,  that  our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the  sea.  They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.  They all  ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink, for they  drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."   Christ was even in the OT, brothers and sisters.   "Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were  scattered over the desert."   God is hard line.   "Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on  evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of the were, as it is  written.  The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan  revelry.  We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did-- and in  one day twenty-three thousand of them died.  We should not test the Lord, as  some of them did--and were killed by snakes.  And do not grumble, as some of  them did, and were killed by the destroying angels.  These things happened to  them as examples and were written down as a warning for us on whom the  fulfillment of the ages had come.  So, if you think you are standing firm, be  careful that you don't fall."   Well, fall from what?  Well, he just reiterated it.  Idolatry can cause you  to fall.  Sexual immorality will cause you to fall.  Testing the Lord will  cause you to fall.  Grumbling will cause you to fall. (that's right)  Now,  please understand what he said right there.  Did he rank any one of these  things worse than the others?  (no)  See, my Bible teaches me "hey, in 20th  century, even in God's church now, we have it clear in our minds immorality,  prostitution, homosexuality, adultery, these things are evil.  And many of us  participate in those things.  And we know the evil it brings.  "We've got deep  convictions" (in mimicking voice).  What he's saying, "Hey, that was  terrible, but so was idolatry and so was grumbling.  (that's right)  He's not  ranking sexual -- he's saying, "listen, sexual immorality causes people to  lose their salvation as much as grumbling cause them to lose their salvation."   Are you with me right here, church?  (amen)   You say, "but aren't there a lot of people that have innocent hearts?"  Verse  13:  "no temptation has seized you except what is common to man.  God is  faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.  When you  are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."   I believe that there is no temptation that we have, including the horrendous,  grievous thing that have happened in the Indianapolis church.  Yet, to some  extent, at the beginnings of people that were naive, but there has been and  will continue to be a way out provided by God.  (amen, that's right)    I believe one of the first things we've got to understand is, number one, is  that grumbling is as bad as immorality in the eyes of God.  (that's right)  We  don't think grumbling is that bad a sin.   Number two, in the Bible there is not a victim mentality.  (that's right)  He  says, "there is no temptations come your way there isn't a way out on."  And  what was said in the Indianapolis church over and over again is "how bad  things are, oh woe is you, woe is me, here's our problem, here's what is going  on."  And many things that the disciples actually thought were healed in  their lives got reopened.  (amen)  And a victim mentality began to grow  individually and collectively.  Now we must remember this.  God doesn't judge  a church collectively, he judges people individually.   Let's go to Exodus 16.  We have now validated that the things in the OT  happened as an example for us in the NT.   We are living under the NT, amen?   (amen)  But we are living with the same God as the OT.  He didn't change.  He  didn't get baptized.  He's the same guy.  Amen.   In Exodus 16 after they crossed the Red Sea, we read in verse 6 the principle  that I believe is shocking to the modern day "American Christian."  "So Moses  and Aaron said to all the Israelites, 'in the evening you will know that it  was the Lord that brought you out of Egypt; and in the morning, you will see  the glory of the Lord because he hears your grumblings against him; and who  are we that you should grumble against us?'  And Moses also said, 'you will  know that it was the Lord that gives you meat to eat in the evening and all  the bread you want in the morning because he has heard your grumbling against  him.  Who are we?  You are not grumbling against us, but against the Lord.'"   We in America believe in the concept of democracy as being the highest form  of government.  I think it is great that as disciples in the 20th century, we  live in America.  I like the freedom of religion, amen?  (amen)  On the other  hand, that has been kind of taken a step too far when we say, "well, a form of  government in the kingdom of God must be a democracy."  In the kingdom of God,  it is a kingdom.  (that's right)  There are no votes.  (that's right)  That's  Church of Christ business meetings.  (bring it down brother!  come on)  We did  away with those things a lonnnnnng time ago. (amen)   Secondly, we don't elect a president where 46% of the people like him, 42%  hate him and the other people can't decide.  But that is not how we have it in  the Lord.  The Lord has his anointed leaders. Not the ones they voted for.   You know, if there had been votes going for Moses at the beginning of the Red  Sea, it wouldn't have been a strong showing.  See that's the difference in  the kingdom of God is that very often the prophet, the leader of God's people  has to stand up against the majority for the sake of what is right.  (that's  right)  We know that principle collectively because we know that Jesus said  straight and narrow is the road that goes to heaven.  But broad and wide is  the road that leads to destruction.  (that's right)  We understand that the  people of God were always going to be in the minority, but we have got to keep  our convictions strong.  (amen, that's right)   Right here is the principle that will shake the Americanized Christians.  To  grumble against God's leaders is to grumble against God himself.  That's a  very serious thing.  Are we saying that Moses was perfect?  No, Moses was not  perfect.  Ask Aaron, his brother.  Ask Miriam, his sister.  There has been no  perfect human being.  Jesus was in the flesh, but he was all God and all man,  amen? (amen)  I believe Peter messed up a few times.  Three to be exact,  right there at the crucial point. Paul had some low moments.  He gave a  little back talk to the high priest.  Remember that in Acts 23?  He's still an  apostle, though.  You know, apostles messed up.  That blows our mind.  We  think apostles were perfect.  No, they weren't.  Matter of fact, one of them  fell away -- Judas.   We have the idea that somehow we put into it that if you are a leader, then  you have got to be perfect.  No, they are going to be judged and they are  going to be judged more severely.  But leaders are not chosen by the people  like in a democracy.  Leaders are chosen by God.  (that's right)  Those of you  in the audience that are leaders, I mean there should be a pit in your  stomach going "oh, gee. You mean it wasn't the evangelist that picked me out  to go in the ministry?"  No, it was the Lord. (that's right)  You are not an  employee of the church, you are a servant of the living God.  (amen)   And right here, guys, people start talking bad about the evangelist.  And  people start talking bad about the leader of the movement.  You are not  grumbling against Moses and Aaron.  You are not grumbling against Kip and  Marty, Ron and Yvonia.  You are grumbling against the Lord.  (that's right)   Now that's either in the scriptures or it is not.  (that's right)  The Lord.   (preach it, Kip)   Turn to Numbers 16.  Tonight is not going to be the usual 40 minutes Bible  school lesson and then we go on home.  I got my notes right here, I've got my  scriptures and we'll be done when I finish with the last one.  (come on,  preach it)  (don't hold back)  (go, bro)   See, I found out there is a late night spot to eat.  The Steak and Shake.   I've already told Ron, "now, bro, we need to get several burgers from there  and a few shakes for tonight and everything."   Chapter 16 in the book of Numbers is a very serious chapter.  Let me read to  you verses 1-3 to begin with.  "Korah, son of Izhar, son of Kohath, son of  Levi and certain Reubenites, Dathan and Abriram, sons of Eliab, and On, the  son of Peleth, became insolent and rose up against Moses.  With them were 250  Israelite men, well known community leaders who have appointed members of the  counsel. They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and they said, 'you  have gone too far.'  The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the  Lord is with them.  By them you set yourselves above the Lord's assembly."         Right here, the Bible says there was insolence.  What is insolence?  When  someone under the charge of the Lord's anointed rises up to challenge their  authority.  That is insolence.  If you are parents, you understand that.   Secondly, these were not just some jokers in the Israelite community.  These  were leaders.  See, in order for there to be a group uprising, it has got to  be led.  And a lot of people are going, "you mean the leaders can fall away?"   Yes.  (that's right)    Thirdly, the charge "you have gone too far, you are expecting too much", boy,  doesn't that tickle the ears of the people?  (yes)  Yeah.  You're doing too  much.  I'd like it easier.   Fourthly, this is incredible.  A twisting of scripture.  "It's the whole  community that is holy.  Moses, how come you have set yourself up to be the  one over the Lord's people?  You are not the only holy one amongst us.  We are  alllll holy."  (come on, brother)  Doesn't that sound spiritual?  (amen)   Right here, when we read this, our 20th century American Christian, we go "I  can't believe this happened. There was rebellion amongst the Israelites  against Moses?"   You know, we have got to get Polyanna thinking dealt with.  We are in the  business of evangelizing the world.  (that's right)  And it is not going to be  easy.  Our enemy is not flesh and blood, our enemy is Satan and he is going to  come after us.  And the way he is going to come after us -- he knows  persecution from the outside.  Let me tell you something, persecution only  makes us grow stronger. (that's right)  What was the thing that defeated the  Roman Empire?  It was not the outward enemy, it was the inward corruption and  division.  (that's right)  What has immobilized Bill Clinton?  The inward  division.  (that's right)   Let me tell you something.  What has happened here, you go "I can't believe  it happened."  It happened.  But it is not the first time it has happened.   And if we really are God's people, this challenge will come to us again.  Now,  in essence, this was the last time something like this happened because the  Israelites dealt with it so firmly.  And you will find the Lord had a hand in  it. (amen)  He was very persuasive toward the end of the chapter.  (laughter)   So we've got to understand it has happened.  Some people go "oh, it's never  happened to us, it never happened before, I can't believe it."  Would you shut  up?  Get your Bible open.  It has happened before.  (that's right)  But it has  got to be dealt with in a godly way.  (amen)   Secondly, I got a letter today and I appreciate the letter.  But in the midst  of the letter, from a six month old Christian that said something to this  effect:  it is so very difficult for me to choose which side to go with.  I  feel like Mom and Dad are getting a divorce and they are asking me do you want  to live with Mom or with Dad?  See, this is how it has been presented.  Oh,  there are problems on both sides.  The whole community is holy.  Oh, we've  made some mistakes how we have gone about our things, but the leaders, they've  made their mistakes.  Brothers and sisters, this is not a problem with Mom and  Dad having a divorce.  We have but one Father, amen?  (amen)  And He is not  going to curse his people as long as his people stay faithful to him.    What is the issue here?  I went over last time the issues.  And the things  where, quote   Tape 1   Side 2   but, in fact, he is leading you to another.  That's called deceiving.   (that's right)  Let's just label it with Bible words.  (come on, Brother)   Autonomy is unbiblical.  It is not a word found in the Bible. Turn to Titus  1.  In verse 5, we find Paul writing to the young evangelist, Titus.  He  said, "the reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what  was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town as I directed you."  So,  right here we find that one evangelist, Titus, is given a charge by Paul.  Now  Titus is not an apostle or anything.  But he is given the charge to be over  all the churches in Crete.  There was not an autonomous church in each  separate town.  Matter of fact, the evangelist was to appoint elders in each  one of the churches that were in each town.  The Bible clearly teaches in one  church in one city, amen?  (amen)  It doesn't teach an autonomy.   We find here that the evangelist was given the power and the charge to  straighten things out.  Was he a member of that church?  No, but he was given  charge.   Look a little bit later, we find in verse 15 "these, then, are the things  which you should teach." Chapter 2.  "These, then are the things which you  should teach.  Encourage and rebuke with all authority.  Do not let anyone  despise you."  A little bit later, verse 9:  "But avoid foolish controversies  and genealogies and arguments and discords about the law because they are  unprofitable and useless.  Warn and divisive person once, then warn him a  second time.  After that, have nothing to do with him.  You may be sure that  such a man is warped and sinful, being self- condemned."    Somebody has said, "well, why don't we have a debate?"  See, this has been  the problem.  Ed did not bring to my attention or Marty's attention and, as  the letter says, he was in LA just two weeks before all this happened.   (that's right)  He had more than enough time.  Two days to talk to us.  Not a  word. I mean, we were hugged, "oh, everything is going great (sarcastically),  bro."  He had the opportunity.   Secondly, it is clear right here -- at least in my Bible -- it says that the  evangelist -- this was written to Titus -- don't get involved in foolish  arguments or controversies.  What just blew away all the young disciples in  the Indianapolis church?  Why are so many of the young people just so  confused? They don't know all these church of Christ idiotic traditions.    Because they have been baptized recently.  And so, in that sense, they have  had all these things dropped on them and it has confused them.  (that's right)   Ed himself said, "hey, listen, I have shielded you from the harshness of the  movement."  No, what he has done is he has shielded the people of Indianapolis  from the good of the movement.  (that's right)   You know something, I had people hating me that never even met me.  (that's  right)  Now,  ( ? ) figure.  How did that happen?  You know, a man -- Jesus  listened.  You know someone by their heart.  And you know a person's heart.   You hear him say "well, you can't know someone's heart." Oh, yeah, you can.   (that's right)  Says you will know a good prophet from a bad prophet by  looking at the fruit of their life.  Now how in the world did people in my  home city who I had never met come to hate my guts?  Someone put it there.   (that's right)   Now someone is hating somebody, that's not of God.  (that's right)  So then  we have got to be wise right here.  Keep your eyes open.  (that's right)   (come on, Kip)  The Bible teaches right here that Titus had the charge over  several churches.  He was to straighten things out, he was to deal with them  with all authority and rebuke accordingly.  And he was not to get involved in  controversies, not to get involved in a debate.  Debate would just continue to  injure people's hearts and lives. That's why the Church of Christ whole  movement dissipated.  They wanted to debate denominations.  Let's debate on  baptism.  The issue is not baptism.  The issue is Jesus Christ and being  discipled and evangelizing the world, amen?  Not that don't mean I don't  believe in baptism, amen?  And I know the scriptures -- a debate won't help,  people.  It will confuse them.  That's why Paul said don't get involved in a  debate.  (that's right)   As an evangelist, I have got to obey the word of God.  To get involved in a  debate would be sinful, wrong and injurious.  In my flesh, I go, "oh, yeah, I  would like to debate."  But that is that inside of me and you have it too.   You guys know how it is.  "I want to show I'm right."  (laughter)  You want a  debate, I'll show you, let's go for it.  But what does that do?  And what if  the kids would hear?  I'm telling you, according to the Bible, I am not  allowed to debate.  I'm not going to debate.  (amen)  I'll study the  scriptures one on one with anybody.   Autonomy is not in the Bible as a word.  (that's right)  You cannot not have  an evangelist that has a charge over your charge, like Marty Fuqua, not come  in your church.  (that's right)  And then say you are in the movement.  No,  you left the movement.  (that's right)  But he said to us that we didn't leave  the movement.  Listen, you have been deceived.  (that's right)   Secondly, the issue of why was Ed and his staff marked?  Why didn't you go  through Matthew 18: 15-17 where you have the four steps:  1 on 1, 2 or 3 on 1,  the church on 1, and finally disfellowshipment?   You can only disfellowship  somebody that is in fellowship.  If they don't want to meet with you, they are  not in fellowship any more.   That's not the proper scripture.  The scripture  of issue, then, becomes Romans 16.  Let's turn there.  I want you to make  these scriptures down. Verse 17:  "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for  those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to  the teaching you have learned.  Get away from them for such people are not  serving the Lord, Christ, but their own appetite by smoooooooth talk and  flattery."  "Oh, we are the fastest growing church in the Midwest."   (sarcastically)  I'll deal with that later.    "....by smooth talk and  flattery,  they deceive the minds of naive people."   I had no choice.  Matthew 18 was not an issue when he will not meet with us.   When he will not allow us into the assembly.  He has removed his church from  the fellowship of God's movement. He has become divisive.  He is putting  obstacles in the faces of young disciples.  (that's right)  How has he done  it?  By smooooooth talk and flattery.   The marking, Matthew 18 is not the issue.  Romans 16 is.  Well, you say,  "well you've gone too far by saying 'you're the leader of the movement.'"  Oh,  no, I didn't say I was.  But I either am or I am not.  It's kind of  interesting.  I was talking with Marty and Marty just reiterated the  conversation with me the other day.  He said, "bro, be sure to tell the  Indianapolis brothers and sisters this."  Ed says, well "I can't be a part of  a system where there is a hierarchy and one guy is in charge."  Marty goes,  "well, Ed, when you pull out of a movement, aren't you the one guy in charge  of Indianapolis except you just have a smaller hierarchy?"  Ed, when you think  about it, every group has a CEO.  Every group has a president.  Every group  has a premier.  Somebody has got to lead.  (that's right)  Even down in a  little tiny nuclear family has a hierarchy.  It's called Dad.  (come on)    Now, I realize that's challenging from time to time.  But that's not what I'm  going to talk about tonight.  But, are you with me here, church?  (yes)  See,  it's the same -- "isn't the whole group holy? How come, Moses, you set  yourself above everybody?"  The same charge going on here for centuries.  You  have gone too far.  No we haven't, we're just following the Bible pattern.   (that's right)   The marking.  Well, who are you in fellowship with  now?  Who are your  heroes, Ed?  And from talking, I have heard, that the church in Denver with  Ron Gholsten is now a hero church.  Well, we had Mike Grott, (?) the  evangelist of Denver do some checking on that church.  And that church in 3  years has grown to 250-300 people.  That's it.  Attendance.  That's not the  membership.  A lot of the people, about 1/3 of them, are fallaways from the  Denver church.  Ron Gholsten was marked by the Boston Church several years ago  for divisiveness.  (that's right)  Hey, now, hold it, if you are siding with  someone that opposes the movement, where do you really stand?  "Oh, no, but  we're in the movement, we're just not with the same structure."  You're not in  the movement if you are siding with people who oppose it.   Well, are the people in the Int'l Churches of Christ the only ones saved?  We  are the only ones who teach what we teach.  But if someone in another group,  in the Church of Christ or a Baptist group or whatever, picks up the Bible and  they see the way of salvation, which is you have got to have faith in Jesus,  Son of God, you got to repent of all the sins, you have got to come to  conviction that Jesus died on the cross, you've got to turn Jesus Lord of your  life, you gotta become a disciple of Jesus and then you gotta be water  immersed, water baptized for the forgiveness of your sins and receive the gift  of the Holy Spirit.  If they have done that, then they are a son or daughter  of God.  (that's right) Because we don't take a vote in our churches.   (that's right)  On the other hand, if they are in some isolated group like  that, -- the last time I spoke to you, I told you about they want to be a  part of a movement, then they have to be a part of a church that is moving.   (that's right)  (good point)  If they are the only one that is taught that  truth in that little fellowship, then if they are really good hearted, they  are going to join with people that are true disciples.  (that's right)  So,  I'm not going to be ordering the borders of Israel here.  That's for the Lord  to do.  I am going to be hard line on what it takes to become a true disciple.   (that's right)  But I spent all the 80's trying to bring the remnant from  these little churches.  (that's right)    You say, "well, okay, but what happens if then they start opposing the  movement?"   Oh, now you brought up a whole different issue.  Let's turn to 2  Timothy 3.  You know, I'm in no rush tonight. It's only 6:00 in the evening.   (come on, brother)  This is the actual sermon.  I'm done with my introduction  and everything.  (amen)   Paul writing to Timothy.  2 Tim.  3:10  "You, however, know all about my  teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance,  persecution, sufferings, what kind of things happen to me in Antioch, Iconium  and Lystra and the persecutions I endured."      I spent two hours sharing with you all the persecutions I endured in  Philadelphia, Charleston, Boston, Manila, Cairo, L.A.  You know them, you have  read about them in your cotton-pickin papers.  They are not exactly secrets.   What I believe is not a secret.  What I preach is not a secret. And there are  enough numbered in this auditorium who know me personally.   They know my way  of life, they know my purpose, they know my wife and they know my 3 kids.  I  realize many don't. But many do.  Now, look what he says, the middle of verse  11:  "Yet, the Lord rescued me from them all."  I don't want your pity.  In  fact,  "everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be  persecuted. But evil men and imposters...."  ones who profess to be  brothers...  "...imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being  deceived."   Now, you know, a while back I was going "how come these guys like  Rick Bauer, Jerry Jones are so cotton-picking convincing?"  I said, "man,  they could persuade these people."  And you know what finally hit me is they,  themselves, were deceived. (that's right)  Therefore, if they took a lie  detector test and they asked "is Kip McKean evil, is the movement evil?' and  they put the lie detector test -- they would say "this guy is telling the  truth." That's why they are so convincing.  Their minds have been deceived  and they are about the work of deceiving.  (that's right, brother)    Look, verse 14.  "But, as for you, continue in what you have learned and  become convinced of because you know those from whom you have learned it.  And  now from infancy, you have known the Holy scriptures which are able to make  you wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. All scripture is God  breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in  righteousness so the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good  work."  (amen)  "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge  the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this  charge:  preach the word; be prepared in season, out of season; correct,  rebuke and encourage with great patience and instruction.  For the time will  come...." It has come to Indianapolis.    "...when men will not put up with  sound doctrine.  Instead they will suit their own desires; they will gather  around them  a great number of teachers..."   ...and staff... "...to say what  their itching ears want to hear.  They will turn their ears away from the  truth and turn aside to myths.  Why are you so surprised?  It's in the book.   We need to understand that the issue that we will see in Numbers 16 as well as  we see in the NT is this.  There were men who were "baptized right", guys like  Demus and Judas.  They were baptized right -- that left the Lord and opposed  God's work.  The issue -- and don't get it clouded up, you hear well "isn't  our baptism right?  Aren't we brothers?" Baptism isn't the issue.  (that's  right)  It's their hearts and their lives that is the issue.  If you oppose  the Lord's servants, then you oppose the Lord.  And see, for American  Christians, that's really hard because we want to vote.  That's not how it is  in the kingdom.  It has never been like that.  It wasn't in the OT and it  wasn't in the NT.  God picks the leaders and you gotta get behind them, amen?  (amen)  That's the teaching of the word.   So, people ask me "what about these people that are deceived?"  Well, we'll  talk about that at the end of the lesson.  We've got to help them get  undeceived.  (right)  On the other hand, there comes a time when you pass into  a state of lostness because you have allowed yourself to be deceived.  "But  that's unfair."  No, the Bible says that there is a way out, that no one faces  a temptation they couldn't have gotten out of.  (that's right)  There is a  point in time they could have turned back.   You know, I have heard again through a couple people -- these are disciples  in the Indianapolis church -- that "Kip has gone too far.  The movement has  gone too far."  That's the charge.  You kind of get the gist there?  "What do  you mean you have got to date only Christians?"  Let's turn to Nehemiah 13.   You are going to meet a man right here that I honestly haven't worked up to  be as hard line as yet.  Neh. 13:23.  "Moreover in those days, I saw a man of  Judah...."  Those are God's people.  "...who had married women from Ashdod,  Ammon and Moab."  Those are not God's people. They are not people of faith.   The people of faith in the OT were the Jews.  The not people of faith were the  Gentiles.  That was what is so amazing about the NT, is that Jews and  Gentiles could both become sons and daughters of God, is that flat awesome and  everything?  But right here in the OT, these people are not of faith, but they  intermarry.  "Half their children spoke the language of Ashdod or the language  of one of the other peoples and did not know how to speak the language of  Judah." I mean, they said the children of these half marriages, the kids  didn't even know about God.  They didn't even speak the language of Judah.  "I  rebuke them and call curses down on them.  I beat some of the men and pulled  out their hair.  I made them take an oath in God's name and said 'you are not  to give your daughters to their sons, nor are you to take their daughters in  marriage for your sons or for yourselves.   Was it not because of marriages  like these, Solomon, King of Israel, sinned.  Among the many nations, there  was no king like him.  He was loved by God.  And God made him king over  Israel.  But even he was led into sin by foreign women.  Must we now hear  that you, too,  are doing all this terrible wickedness and are being  unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women?"   Dating is an American culture thing.  It is not in the Bible.  You know, it  is just as biblical over in India and we have to have some marriage like that,  you know -- in India they have a tradition where the mom and dad kind of pick  out great kid, you know, great boy.  The mom and dad pick out a great daughter  for their boy and they say, "well,  here's so and so and here's so and so and  they are getting married Friday."  (laughter)  That blows Americans' minds.   We have no concept.  That cannot be, they didn't date long enough.  (laughter)   Well, you're going to have to go ask Isaac and Rebecca about that, then.  I  mean, she gets off the camel, they get married and they go in the tent and  they take it from there.  (laughter)  See, you'd be surprised how culturally  inundated you are.  (yes)  And because of that, you don't understand the  culture that God's people even came from.  (that's right) The principle of  God's word is simply this:  in opposite sex relationships, you are always  commanded by God to be "yoked with believers."  (that's right)  This business  -- I don't even understand why you would want to date a nonchristian.  (that's  right)  What would attract you to a nonchristian?  Their beautiful face, their  beautiful body?  His awesome muscles?  I mean, let's just think about it.  Why  are we married?  What is  most important?  It's got to be someone's  spirituality. The person you marry is going to determine where you spend  eternity.  (that's right)  What's wrong with you?  (come on)  Why do we even  get sucked in?  "Well, I think we should have the freedom to date who we  want."  It's not a matter of freedom.  (that's right)  It's not legal -- it's  the flat word of God.  How easy we are deceived.   Sixthly, it was stated to you that the Indianapolis church was the fastest  growing church in the Midwest.  (tell the truth, brother, come on)  I read to  you the stats that Ed Powers himself had turned in.  And essentially they  started with 950 in attendance in Jan, 1993 -- never went over 1000 average  for 1993 -- and ended at 950 attendance in 1993, December.  That's the  fastest growing church?  I think not.   But sadder, I didn't go into a lot of detail.  I didn't feel you could handle  it.  What is sadder is this: Ed also reported to have 750 members.  He also  reported to have 250 children.  Now let's see if we can get our additions  going here.  750 -- let's be minimal here -- 750 plus 200 = what?  950.  Are  you saying you had no visitors at church?  Now what you have is at least 100- 200 fringe people on your membership list that don't even come to your church.   They are the fallaways or the people that never really were bonded into the  body.  (that's right)  I'm not hung up on statistics.  Please don't get me  wrong.  Each of those people -- those statistics represent a face, a person,  a life, a soul -- and my counsel to -- and Al can testify even last week to  the young leaders in the LA church, I say when you are doing a Bible Talk  Leaders meeting, don't deal with numbers, deal with names.  If you are mature  in the faith, you can handle the numbers because numbers in and of themselves  (   ?   ) a spiritual jolt. And you engineers understand what I mean by that.   I love engineers.  Anyway.  But they can be kind sterile and they can cause  you to be unspiritual.  That's why I challenge, I specifically teach and have  taught that BTL's, don't use numbers, use names because then it's, "did you  get with Sally, did you get with Sue, did you get with Jane, did you get with  Rod, did you get with Dave."  You know. Then they go, "oh I got to crank the  studies, I've got to get them in the water, I've got to get him to be a  brother."  Amen?  (amen)  But see, the twisting -- here it comes.  You not  only didn't have a nongrowing church, you had a church that was going negative  in growth.  And if your church was so strong, how come even in the world's  eyes, you have divided?  If he had produced this super strong awesome church  (sarcastically), how come it's   (inaudible).  The faith of so many people.  You've got some people who have stayed in the church, some people that are  here and you have a lot of people that said, "listen, this is why bad  denominationalism....I'm out of here."  I hurt for those people.  (that's  right)   Now, if you had such a strong, growing, spiritual church, how do you explain  those kind of fruits? Jesus says you will know a prophet by its fruit.   (that's right)  Was the Indianapolis church the fastest growing church in the  Midwest?  No.  You were deceived.  The idea, you were flattered, saying "well,  we are growing, we are awesome, we are so liberal here, cotton picking, we're  not bogged down with this legalism and all this stuff they are telling us to  do."  Smooth talking flattery.   Not only were you not the fastest growing, you were not even growing, period.   If you are going to be a part of the Indianapolis Int'l Church of Christ, the  purpose of this church is to seek and save the lost (amen) and, secondly, to  join hand in hand and arm in arm with all of your sister churches and to  evangelize the world in this generation, amen?  (amen, applause)   Let's get back to the book of Numbers right here.  Remember what we read in  the verses.  We've got Korah and some other leaders who have become insolent,  amen?  (amen)  They rise up against Moses.  They come as a group against Moses  and they say, "you've flat gone too far.  The whole community is holy, Moses,  and you set yourself as the hierarchy guy."  Verse 4:  "when Moses heard it,  he fell face down."  He prays.  Do you realize that already in all the  churches around the world they have heard what has happened to Indianapolis?   (yep)  Do you realize the number of prayers that have been prayed for you  guys?  The number of angels that have been coming to this city? (come on,  Kip)  Moses didn't fly off the handle.  You know, it blew my mind -- just to  show you how distorted a picture you've got to be -- I had some people come up  and say "Bro, you were so nice when you came and you were so forgiving."   Well, what's a Christian supposed to be?  I didn't feel like I did anything  great.  I came.  I spoke like I thought.  Tried to preach the word as best I  could.  Forgave those who had hurt me.  And, amen, let's get on with the  Lord's work.  And it's amazing, people were blown away.  You shouldn't have  been.  I've been praying for the Ind. church every day.  My kids pray for you  guys.  (amen)    "Then he said to Korah and all his followers, 'in the morning, the Lord will  show who belongs to him and who is holy, and will have that person come near  him.  The man he chooses, he will cause to come near him.  You, Korah, and all  your followers are to do this:  take the censors and tomorrow put fire and  incense in the before the Lord.  For the man the Lord chooses shall be the  one who is holy.  You Levites are the ones who have gone too far."   Paul says in 1 Cor. verse 11, he says, you know, "there are divisions amongst  you.  This has to be so to show which ones of you have God's approval."   Notice right here, Moses was not a wimpy guy: "oh well, let's just make  peace, let's get unified."  Moses was not a guy to say, "Hey, let's have unity  at any price."  (that's right)  He's going, "Korah, I've gone too far?  No.   Let's see who the one who is really holy before the Lord.  You are the ones  who have gone too far."   Verse 8:  Moses also said to Korah: 'Now listen, you Levites, isn't it enough  for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the rest of the  Israelite community and brought you near to himself to do the work of the  Lord's tabernacle and to stand before the community and to minister to them? "  Don't you see how awesome you have had it?  "He has brought you and all your  fellow Levites near him but now you are trying to get the priesthood, too.  It  is against the Lord that you and all your followers have banded together.  Who  is Aaron that you should grumble against him?'  Then Moses summoned Dathan and  Abiram, the sons of Eliab, but they said, 'we will not come.'"  Boy, that kind  of reminds me of a statement a couple weeks ago.  We aren't going to meet  with you. "'Isn't it enough that you have brought us up out of the land  flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the desert and now you want to lord  it over us?'"    Two issues: twisting of the past.   (  ?      ) a people.  It is true that  under Moses' leadership, the people went through hard times.  I mean, I don't  know about you, when you've got the cotton picking greatest army in the  history of the world coming after you, that's hard times.  Then you've got the  Red Sea in front of you and you know it's over your waist deep all the way  up, particularly in the middle out there and everything.  (laughter)  You know  it's tough.  Then you get to the other side and the Lord smashes the army but  there's nothing to drink and nothing to eat and you didn't bring anything with  you to eat, that's a bummer.  And then you didn't really bring any clothes.   You've got to wander in the desert.  That could be challenging.  (yes)  God  never says, "follow me and you'll have an easy life."  That's what we want.   "I'm going to follow the Lord and life will be easy, I'll be rich."  No.  He  says, "Listen, you follow me and you'll give up everything.  Matter of fact,  buddy, you're going to have to take up the cross daily if you're going to make  it to heaven."   Where have we got this idea that life is going to be easy as a disciple?   What's Dathan and Korah do? Say, "Listen, I can't believe it, Moses.  You  took us away from a land of milk and honey there in Egypt."  Hold it, hold it,  hold it.  No, no, no, no, no.  Egypt was the place of slavery.  Remember the  Hebrews getting beat?  People here go, "oh, can't believe it.  That  reconstruction was horrendous. You should have seen the things they said to  me."  Let's talk about what you had before the reconstruction.  (yes)  It was  not a true church of the Bible.  You could not find a true church in  Indianapolis.  My Bible teaches me that true Christian are disciples.  True  churches are filled with only disciples, amen?  (amen)  That just didn't exist  anywhere.  It was a big  (  ?  ) to be in.  That reconstruction produced a  true church in Indianapolis.  (yes)   Now, was everything done perfectly between the leaders and the followers and  all that?  I'm not even going to attempt to address that.  That's like saying  like in marriage -- marriage is of God, right? And you think it is a good  thing, right?  (right)  I met one couple.   They have been married five days.   There they are, right here.  They came here tonight on their honeymoon, amen?   (amen)  Let's go to Indianapolis on our honeymoon!  (laughter)  I'm sure they  will be talking about that 20 years from now, you know.  But, you know, as  sweet as this couple is, and as much as they love each other.  And I trust you  haven't had a fight yet?  (laughter)  I'm not a prophet, but I suspect that  some time in the next 20 years they are going to have a fight.  When they have  a fight, let's just get rid of marriage.  It must be wrong because they had a  fight.  No.  You jumped to a conclusion right there. The issue is you don't  get rid of the marriage.  Marriage is a perfect institution.  (that's right)   It's the people that are in it that are imperfect.  (that's right)   Discipling is a perfect institution made by God.  (that's right, amen)  But  the people who are in it are not perfect.  They are called sinners.  And they  are going to do what they do best.  Sin.  (laughter)   Now, honestly, I just feel like we've got to get rid of this Polyanna  feeling, "well, if they are a leader, they are discipling, they've got to be  perfect."  That's not going to happen.  Those who have been married -- I have  been married 17 years.  I've got an awesome wife.  I think she is awesome  because she is still with me.  (laughter)  But we have had our battles through  the years.  I know I'm prideful. I get a little heavy handed and sometimes,  you know, I have a strong opinion.  (laughter)  It has been known to happen.   But I love Elena with all my heart.  But I kind of kid her, everybody thinks  she is so quiet and gentle and meek and mild.  Oy.  (laughter)  She's not  Latin for nothing, you know. It can get a little bit fiery.  But I like that,  I like that.  You know, she stands up to me and that's good.   The point is this:  we are not going to throw out the perfect institution  simply because sinners are in it.  Discipling is God's plan.  It's not a  choice.  You don't get to vote on it.  You can't go half way with it anymore  you can go half way in marriage.  "Well, honey, I'll stick with you three  nights of the week, and the other three, I don't know."  That's how it goes.   You can't think that way.  (that's right)   You see, right here in the Bible, he distorts the past.  Ed has distorted the  past.  That reconstruction was of God.  Building a church that was only filled  with disciples -- what a marvel.  What a vision. What a dream become reality.   That is flat phenomenal, church.  But it's almost like "that's when the  horrors began to occur.  It was milk and honey before that when we were in  the mainline church." Oh, gee, scary.  The twisting of the past.    Notice they don't want to meet.  Verse 14:  "moreover you have not brought us  into a land flowing of milk and honey, or given us an inheritance of fields  and vineyards.  Would you gorge out the eyes of these men?  We will not come!"      "You're going to be too hard with us.  If we come and meet with you, you're  going to do something mean to us."  You see some parallels there, guys?   Verse 15:  "then Moses became very angry (shouting) and said to the Lord, 'do  not accept their offering.  I have not taken so much as a donkey from them,  nor have I wronged any of them.'"   You know, I read this thing and I go, you know, I feel a lot better about the  decision I made not to take the missions offering from you.  In other words,  you just get to the point you go home.  I don't want you to even have any  sense of having done something for me.  I want you to see how little you have  done.  Not in a put down sense, but God and his kingdom will advance whether  you are in it or not.  (that's right)   You say, "how come?"  Cuz God is leading it.  (that's right)  And he says, "I  don't want your sacrifice.  I want to show you, you are not needed.  I want  you, because I love you and sent Jesus to die for you, I want you because you  represent one more work to save lost souls.  But I don't need you."  See, a  lot of us got this feeling, well the Lord needs me.  Well, he needs us in a  sense that he uses disciples to make disciples, but he's not going "Oh, I hope  Mary Jane makes it or the whole movement goes down the drain."  Boy, have we  got some things backwards there, guys.  I want you to notice that there comes  a time when the leaders seem to get angry.  Angry.  Anger is not a sin in and  of itself.  You can go over the edge in your anger.  And we're going to see  the heart of Moses coming out.  It's kind of cool.   Verse 16:  "Moses said to Korah, 'you and all your followers are to appear  before the Lord tomorrow. You and they and Aaron.  Each man take a censer and  put incense on it, and two hundred and fifty censes in all and present it  before the Lord.  You and Aaron are to present your censes also.'  So each man  took his censer, put fire and incense in it, and so did Moses and Aaron at  the meeting.  When Korah had gathered all his followers and positioned them at  the entrance of the meeting, the glory of the Lord appeared to the entire  assembly.  The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 'separate yourselves from this  assembly so I can put an end to them at once.'"   God said there is going to be a line drawn.   "But Moses and Aaron fell face down and cried out, 'Oh God, God of the  spirits of all mankind, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only  one man sins?'  And the Lord said to Moses, 'save the assembly.  Move away  from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.'"   They were flat marked.  That was pretty obvious right there.  The whole staff.   "Moses got up and went to Dathan and Abiram and the elders of Israel followed  him.  He warned the assembly, 'move back from the tents of these wicked men.   Do not touch anything belonging to them or you will be swept away because of  all their sins.'  So they moved away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and  Abiram.  Dathan and Abiram had come out and were standing with their wives,  children and little ones at the entrance to their tents."   This is a horror.  The next few is tough.   "Then Moses said, 'this is how you will know that the Lord has sent me to do  these things and it was not my idea.  If these men die a natural death, they  experience only what usually happens to men, the Lord has not sent me.  But if  the Lord brings about something totally new and the earth opens its mouth and  swallows them with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive  into the ground, then you will know that these men have treated the Lord with  contempt.'  As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them  split apart and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them with their  households and all of Korah's men and all their possessions.  They went down  alive into the grave with everything they owned.  The earth closed over them  and they perished and were gone from the community."   We're talking about little kids here.  See what happens when you dessert the  Lord and mess up your kids.    "At their cries..."  Can you imagine as the earth crushes them?  "At their  cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, 'the earth is going to  swallow us too.'"  Could have.  "And the fire came out from the Lord and  consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.    These are the followers that went after these people.  You say, "well,  weren't they just kind of sucked in?"  Yes, they were.  That's the point.   They were sucked on in and they became guilty because of Korah's sin.  See,  Korah opposed the Lord's anointed.  In essence, he wasn't opposing Moses, he  was opposing the Lord, God.  When these people were taken in by the deception  and the smooth talk and the flattery, they, too, became guilty of the sin of  divisiveness and grumbling.   Look at this.  "The Lord said to Moses, 'say to Eleazar, the son of Aaron the  priest, to take the censers out of the smoldering remains and scatter the  coals some distance away for the censers are holy.  As for the censers of the  men who sinned at the cost of their lives, hammer them into sheets to overlay  the altar, for they were presented before the Lord and become holy.  Let this  be a sign to the Israelites.  So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers of  those who had been burned up and he had them hammered out to overlay the  altar, as the Lord directed him through Moses.  This was to remind the  Israelites that no one except the sons of Aaron should come to burn incense  before the Lord; for he would become like Korah and his followers.  The next  day the Israelite community grumbled against Moses and Aaron, 'You killed the  Lord's people,' they said."   Aaah.  This is where we stand tonight.  See, the Lord literally, physically  killed those who opposed Moses.  No, who opposed him.  And now these people  that stood at a distance were kind of on the fence, going 'I can't believe  what they have done.  They are so hard line.  They have drawn the line.' See,  they let sentimentality creep on in there.  (that's right)  And now they  become embittered.  And they fall into the sin because they are sentimental.   Their loyalty is stronger to a man than to God.   I believe in being loyal.  I mean, in the kingdom, you've got to be loyal,  amen?  (amen)  And a lot of us have learned how to do that because we have  learned how to trust people finally.  Feels good to trust people, doesn't it?   (yes)  On the other hand, our loyalty cannot be superseded.  (that's right)  Our number one loyalty is to Jesus Christ and his word.  (amen)   Hey, the guy who studied the Bible with me, he fell away.  Preacher that  baptized me, he's not in the movement.  Amen?  I feel terrible.  They have  made their decisions.  (that's right)  I am a loyal guy. I am the son of a  naval admiral.  You are taught to be loyal.  That's just part of it.  I am  glad I was taught that way.  But also understand that my number one loyalty is  to Jesus and his words.  And you can't get sentimental toward the punishment  of God that's being dealt out Moses right here.  I can see some of you get  sentimental.  "Well, you're being so hard on Ed.  So hard on the staff.  So  hard on those people."  Well, no.  This is what God teaches.  (that's right)   See it's really going to be tough for some of you if you've got friends.   Some of you got family "on the other side."   Tape 2 Side 1   "And the Lord said to Moses, 'get away from the assembly that I may consume  them instantly.'  And Moses fell face down.  And Moses said to Aaron, 'take  you censer, put incense in it along with fire from the altar and hurry to the  assembly to make atonement for them.  Wrath has come out from the Lord, the  plague has started.'  So Aaron did what Moses said and ran into the midst of  the assembly, for the plague had already started among the people.  Aaron  offered the incense for the atonement of them.  He stood between the living  and the dead and the plague stopped.  But 14,700 people died in the plague in  addition to those who had died because of Korah.  And Aaron returned to Moses  and at the doorway of the meeting, for the plague had been stopped."   Shocking.  That many souls were lost, not with the initial grumbling of   Korah, but with the backlash of sentimentality.  Because they abhorred how  hard line God is.  We have got to be careful of our American Christianity  right here.  It is a very interesting thing how sometimes -- it amazes me --  how been a good Hoosier, I'm a Notre Dame fan.  And a lot of people go "how  in the world can  you be for Notre Dame?  They are  favored in every game."   We're talking football now.  And I go, "it's the American thing to be for the  underdog."  Well, let's think about this for a little.  God is not exactly the  underdog type.  My Bible teaches me he always wins.  (that's right)  We've  got to be careful of this American cultural thing.  God is hard line and he  will always win and he will always get his way.  Be careful we don't allow  sentimentality for the discipline of God to stand in the way of your clear  thinking and keep your heart strong and hard line about what the Bible  teaches, amen?   What is the need of the hour?  Well, this is very interesting to me.  Turn to  Matthew 18:1.  "At that time, disciples came to Jesus and asked, 'who is  greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'  He called a little child and had him  stand amongst them and said, 'I tell you the truth, unless you change and  become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.   Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child, is the greatest in the  kingdom of heaven."  You know, kids are really cool.  And when they are small,  I mean, you can toss them up in the air, five feet.  They don't know that you  fumbled the football five out of ten times.  (laughter)  Here's a little kid,  just toss them up in the air and not think about it.  If that were translated  into adultness (inaudible)   So if you had this giant take you and toss you  fifteen feet in the air --( laughter.  Inaudible)    ....to us as adults.   That kind of trust.   But to Jesus, this is the kind of trust you have got to have of a little kid.   You know, my greatest worry has not been the point of false doctrines.  It  has been the destruction of trust.  Your trust in God.  Your trust in God's  movement.  Your trust in all the other churches.  Your trust in discipling.  Your trust in people.  I'm not saying people are perfect.  And I tried to  explain that to you.  ....against the trust in discipling, like marriage,  because discipling was made by God and everything that God makes is perfect,  amen?  (amen)   But we are sinners in that perfect institution.  There are going to be some  problems.  When the discipler sins, he needs forgiveness.  When one of the  disciples sin, they need forgiveness.  You have to have the heart of a little  child.  You have to trust.    Look what he says next.  Verse 5:  "And whoever welcomes a little child in my  name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe  in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around  his next and be drowned in the depths of the sea.  Woe to the world because of  the things that cause people to sin.  Such things must come, but woe to the  man to whom they come."   I will never forget two weeks ago walking into that assembly and being  treated the way I was treated. (that's right)  I have no bitterness, no bad  attitudes.  I was shocked that brothers and sisters were hating someone they  didn't even know.  It's such a horrendous bad attitude.  I've never been  treated that bad by nonchristians.  And I thought about this passage.  Woe to  the one that causes the little ones, the naive ones, the ones that trusteth so  much, the ones that found the kingdom perfect, the ones that thought it was  awesome evangelizing the world -- woe to the ones that have destroyed this  innocence of Christianity.  And you know what I am talking about here.  We've  got disciples that were baptized 3 weeks ago, 3 months ago, a year and a half  ago and they thought the kingdom was awesome.  (that's right)  And now they're  not going anywhere.  And they are not going to go any place.  They can't see a  difference between what happened and the denominations they left.  That's sad.   Now what's the issue?  Let's go on.  Chapter 18:21  "Then Peter came to Jesus  and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins  against me?  Seven times?'  Jesus said, 'I tell you, not seven times but  seventy-seven times.'"   Now this is a hard teaching.  Now I've got 2 sons and they sometimes go at it  a little bit.  And they are always telling me that they learned the secret  that whoever gets there first usually has a better chance of winning the  argument, winning the day, you know.  And they're always downing the other  one.  And it is sad for me as a dad to see this kind of disagreements.  At  the end sometimes I'll have to act as a human dad and say, "whoa, that's  right, Eric, that's bad."  Obviously I was puzzled.  But I always know what to  do.  Forgive.  And you can tell if there is really forgiveness.  I say, okay,  "hug each other."  (laughter)  Oh, there are still mega bad attitudes right  here.  I said, "now hug each other."  "Okay, dad.  Hey, man, I'm sorry."  "I'm  sorry, too. Let's go play Nintendo."  (laughter)  You can tell when  forgiveness has taken place.  There is a sense of unloading, lifting, I mean  the hugs are real, they are genuine, they are free, they are ready.  You love  it, you feel it.   What does Jesus teach about forgiveness?  I see this as the need of the hour.   Verse 23  "Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to  settle accounts with his servants.  As he began to settle them, the man who  owed him 10,000 pounds was brought to him.  Since he was unable to pay, the  master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had were  sold to pay the debt.  The servant fell on his knees before him, 'be patient  with me,' he begged.  'I will pay back everything.'  So his master took pit on  him, cancelled the debt and let him go.  When the servant went out, he found  one of his fellow servants who owed him 100 denarii.  He grabbed him, began to  choke  him, 'pay back what you owe me.'  The fellow servant fell to his knees  and begged him. 'Be patient with me, I will pay you back.'  But he refused  and instead he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay  the debt.  When the other servants saw what happened, they were greatly  distressed."  See, that's what happens when there's no forgiveness.  Makes  all the other servants....  "and went out and told their master everything  that happened.  Then the master called the servant in.  'You wicked servant,'  he said.  'I cancelled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.   Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'   In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured until  he could pay back all that he owed."   This is how our heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive  your brother from your heart.  (amen)   Right here it sums up all that Christianity is about.  Forgive as the Lord  has forgiven you.  You know, the think the people in Indianapolis  -- (inaudible, he backed away from microphone)  power, money.  Was Ed able to  strike the nerve inside of you that conjured up all of the bitterness and all  the hurts that had you to the point of opposing God's leadership.  You  thought, "well, we just want to raise some objections right here."  But the  objections were opposing God.  (that's right)  How in the world--see,  forgiveness can be undone.  I don't believe that once you are forgiven that  it is always forgotten.  I think that's the perfect state that you get to.   God says he will remember your sins no more.  So that must be the perfect  place.  That's a good thing, you know, when you go up to heaven and introduce  yourself and you say, "Lord, I really felt bad about that immorality and the  other stuff before I was a Christian."  "I just don't remember."  "Let's not  talk about it."  (laughter)  I'm kind of happy that's the way the Lord is.   (amen)  He's the kind of guy...   But, let's face it, some of us have pretty good memories.  (inaudible) ...by  Paul through the Holy Spirit as being totally the antithesis of love.  And  what some of you have done is you have flat gotten your list back out.  "you  did this, you did this, that's them, they did this and that."  You were so  (?), or as Corey would say, bamboozled.  Often, under the guise of teaching  love and freedom is the (?). The .... of love....That's not the gospel.  The  gospel is forgiveness.  And the bitterness, then, gets to the point of  opposing the Lord's leaders and opposing the Lord himself.    What is the need of the hour?  You have got to recognize the level of  destruction that has been wrought in your life.  (amen)  You know, when Ed and  the staff say things like "this is my church, this is my people, this is my  campus ministry," I'm going "no, it's God's church, it's God's people and it's  God's campus ministry."  (yes! applause)  You don't own them.    Now, we have got to understand right here that you have been sucked into a  level of bitterness and rage.  I couldn't go through your life and go, "okay,  here's what the disciple did wrong and here's what Dave did wrong and here's  what..."  You know something?  I honestly believe that after I get with Al and  Gloria when Elena and I have a marriage bump, I go, "yeah, I think when I  yelled at her, that was -- I think that's what really hurt.  That's why I  messed up.  I should have probably listened." You know, most of the time life  isn't very complicated.  It only gets complicated when you have a bad heart.   That's when you get confused and, you see, the author of confusion is Satan.   If you are in a confused state right now, then you know Satan has got your  heart.  (that's right)   Now, honestly, I look back and I actually probably go back to everything that  Elena and I have had bumps about and I go "I blew it here and I blew it  there."  I can really do Elena's real clearly. (laughter)  But, see, the  other thing, when  there is no bitterness in my heart, when there is no  attitude in my heart, I can do mine real clearly.    I really believe that most of the bitterness in most of you guys hearts, most  of the hurts, I think you take a step back, you go "yeah, they did wrong, but  I've done wrong before.  I've done wrong before I was a Christian, wrong after  I'm a Christian.  The Lord wants to forgive me.  Tell you what, I'll just call  it a wash.  I'll forgive everybody too."  Amen?  (laughter)  You know, that's  got to be the heart here, guys.  I don't want to get into all your lives and  all your oooky gooky things.  I can even almost figure them all out.  All that  I would ask you is to the extent that God will have  (  ?  ) on your soul, to  the extent that God has forgiven you of your jealousies and your selfishness,  your convictions and your actions, your sinful desires before you were a  Christian -- and that's pretty cool, but more awesomely, after you were a  Christian.  We're talking the after baptism here.  The Lord has ......   I'll  tell you something, maybe you have been hurt bad by some of the people.  But  to ....but the sins of commission and omission against God.  I have sinned  against God.  I'll tell you something, you would be doing well to strike a  bargain with the Lord right now.  Lord, let me stay forgiven and I forgive  everybody of everything wrong ever done to me.  (amen!)  Go, "oh well, they  are a sinner, I'm a sinner.  Amen.  We're saved."  (come on, applause)   Turn to the book of Jude.  You know, what's amazing to me is when you go  further and further into God's movement how the scriptures come alive.   (that's right)   This is written -- it's amazing -- this is one of the half  brothers of Jesus.  Is that cool?  This is one of the guys that didn't  believe that Jesus was the son of God when he was growing up.  This is written  by a guy who used to persecute Jesus. And here he is taking a stand for his  big half brother.  I like that.   Verse 3:  "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write you about the  salvation that we share." See, that's what bonds us together, amen, church?   "I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for  all entrusted to the saints."  Hey, we've got the truth about salvation.   Let's sound that trumpet.  Let's keep teaching the word, amen?  (amen)  "For  certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly  slipped in among you.  They are godless men, who change the grace of our God  into a license...."    Freedom!  (come on, brother)   "...for immorality and  deny Jesus Christ, our only Sovereign and Lord.  Though you already know all  this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt..."   See, even Jude went back to the story in the  OT right there.  It's a good  story.   "...but later destroyed those who did not believe."   It wasn't that  they didn't believe that God was God.  They didn't obey.  See, in the OT and  NT to believe is to obey.  (that's right)  Not intellectual.  See, even the  demons in Hell intellectually believe that God exists.    "And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned  their own home--these he kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for  judgment on the great day.  In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the  surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion."   Here he's saying that grumbling is that bad.  "They serve as examples of  those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.  In the very same way, these  dreamers pollute their own body and reject authority and slander celestial  beings.  But Michael, the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and  argued about the body of Moses, did not dare bring slanderous accusation  against him, but said 'The Lord will rebuke you!'  Yet these men speak  abusively against whatever they do not understand...."  That's what some of  you were doing, too.  You don't understand the missions contribution, but you  were speaking against it.  We explained it to you.  And we're always happy to  explain things.  But you didn't understand it and you were speaking against  it because you rejected authority.   "And what things they do not understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals- -these are the very things that destroy them.  Woe to them!  They have taken  the way of Cain, they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have  been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.  These men are blemished at your love  feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm..."   Ed Powers ate with  us two weeks before in LA.  Not the slightest thing was mentioned.  One of the  saddest things, I got back -- actually I think it was before I came the first  time, I got a fax in the mail -- maybe Al did too -- from a group of fallen  away disciples over in London -- a headline page "Indianapolis church votes to  leave Boston Movement."  Something like 648 to 6, one abstaining vote or  something like that.  So they passed this all around.  "Look what happened in  Indianapolis.  It's fallen apart."  I heard of some people calling Ed about  their bad actions.  Well, naturally so.  Bad attitudes stick together, haven't  you ever found that?  That shouldn't surprise you.   "These men are blemishes among you, shepherds who feed themselves.  They are  clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees..."  They are  dying!   "...without fruit and uprooted-- twice dead."  They are not in  growing churches though they may tell you so.  "They are wild waves of the  sea, foaming up their shame; wandering starts, for whom blackest darkness has  been reserved forever.  Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesied about these men.   'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to  judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they  have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have  spoken against him'  These men are grumblers and fault-finders."    I believe  that was the address given to you 2-1/2 weeks ago.  The fault of the movement.   Fault-finders.   You know something amazes me about marriage.  You know when  you're doing  awesome with your wife, she's awesome.  But you know, if you stop and think  does she have any faults, man you can rip them off.  Now, isn't that true?   (yes)  Now five days, you can't do that.  (laughter)  It will take at least a  couple weeks.  Don't even worry about it, you know.  And after that you get  your discipling and everything.  Praise God for discipling, amen, church?   (amen)  But you know, it's a mind thing. See, we're imperfect.  Our leaders  are imperfect.  Our churches aren't perfect.  Why?  Because we are in them.   (that's right)  You have a mind set this is of God and we're trying the best  we can and we forgive as we go along, or we become fault-finders.  You did  that.  I don't like the way she did that.  You know, if I was here, I wouldn't  have taught that way.  I think we could have done a lot better push than just  this one business.  Or, you know, the legalism.  On and on it goes.  It's a  mindset.  Grumbling and fault-finding are in the same home and it gets ugly.    "...they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and  flatter others for their own advantage."      We are the fastest growing church in the Midwest.  Thank you, Ed.   "But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ  foretold.  They said to you, 'in the last times there will be scoffers who  will follow their own ungodly desires.  These are the men who divide you, who  follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.   But you, dear  friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy  Spirit.  Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord  Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.  Be merciful to those who doubt..."   That's to be expected.  We have people over in the other church right now  that have a lot of doubt. Be merciful.   "Snatch others from the fire and save them."   This is real important.  The Bible teaches that it's worse for a person who  knew the truth and fall away than people who never knew the truth.  You say,  what's that totally mean?  I don't really know what it totally means.  I just  know this.  I don't want to fall away and I don't want other people to fall  away because I know it's going to be real bad.   My heart?  Snatch them.  Snatch them from the fire. Let's save them.  See,  the issue of salvation is on the line right here.  Do you see it?  It's not a  matter of two camps that have a little different structure, little bit  different opinions, a divorce.  We're talking about people who oppose God.  We're not talking if their attitudes are correct, we're talking about people  who oppose God's servants, and, thus, oppose God.  They grumble against God's  servants, thus they grumble against the Lord.   This is very serious.    "Be merciful to those who doubt, snatch others from the fire and save them;  to others show mercy, mixed with fear."   You got to lay it out right here.  (inaudible)  Bye.  Corrupted, flesh.   Where do we go from here?    #1   Tonight I know some of you signed cards in the past.  Tonight you have  the opportunity to sign cards, to sign up, to support this work with your  tithe, with your offering, with your presence, with your love, with your  heart, with your lives, with your family.  You are going to have that chance  tonight.  (yes)  You need to repent.  Say, "well there's some people who did  some wrong things to me."  Well, that's my second point.   #2   You need to forgive.  See, that will clean the whole thing up.  Just  repent and forgive.  That's all there is to it.  It's really not a complicated  issue here, guys.  A lot of people said, well, -- and I have heard this-- I  think, in a way we've got to figure out what we're doing here.  "I am so glad  we are starting the new Indianapolis church."  (amen)  But we are not.  We  started the new Indianapolis church at the reconstruction.  It became a church  of disciples.  (inaudible--away from microphone) "well, why don't we call  it...."  It's not an issue of scripture, the issue is legal structures  in  America. Ed and his ( ? ) essentially are....they have the name Indianapolis  Church of Christ.  We're not starting a new church.  We .....(inaudible)    (that's right)  We're saying everybody that wants to be a disciple, wants to  be totally sold out,  that wants to have .... so they can join arm in arm  with their brothers and sisters over in Russia, India, San Francisco, all the  other nations to evangelize the world in one generation.  Hey, you are in  God's church filled with only disciples, amen?  (amen)  That's what is  happening right here.   What do you got to do?  You've got to repent and forgive.    Here's the approach we are going to use.  I talked this over with John and  Dave and Ron and the other leaders.    Sunday morning we're going to get back about the Lord's business.  (amen)   We're going to seek and save the lost, amen, church?  (amen)  So here it is  Thursday night.  It's time to crank for Sunday, amen?  Let's get our friends  there.  It'll be a great, great, great message, a stirring, heart-filled  message about becoming a Christian and being tied to the Lord, amen?  (amen)   Wednesday night will be our mid-week service.  We're shifting from Thursday  to Wednesday now. We're going to shift to Wed. nights and at this service  will be a lot of teaching by mature evangelists. I know there was a little  bit of rumor about Nick Young had left the movement, Russ had left the  movement, ....(inaudible)  I said the other thing, when......... so Russ will  be coming on out to cheer you guys on and everything.   But, bottom line, Wed. night is going to be for the disciples to have some  tough, stiff lessons so you get your convictions back.  And this is the big  thing I'm worried about, your trust.   Then, because we have new leadership, we don't really know you as well as we  should, we're going to get to know each other, we're going to be best friends.   We're not going to have Bible Talks for a while.  What we're going to do is  get bigger groups called discipleship groups--you're used to that-- family  groups, same thing.  And those are going to meet say Mon. or Tues. night as  Bible Talks would ordinarily meet.  And the primary purpose for these in the  next month--they will be used as time to study (inaudible)...to help  you....and for extra prayer.  You have got to get back to prayer here in  Indianapolis.  (amen)  That will be a great group, see, to bring in someone  we have to snatch from the fire, because then they can see the love that we  have one for each other.   I don't want to have any bad attitudes toward the other group.  You can get a  bad attitude toward bad attitudes.  You gotta love them.  You gotta be hard  line.  You know, snatch them from the fire, amen?  (amen)  So that's going to  be our program.  So, Sunday is going to be evangelism, amen? Wed. we're going  to meet as a church, but that's going to be for the kingdom disciples.  Mon.  or Tues., depending on when your discipleship group meets, then that's going  to be for Bible Study and specifically prayer.  That's going to be cool.    Then by April 1st or so, the BTL's from LA will be here.  Other leaders from  Chicago will be here and we'll be able to go on, use the BTL's and we will  crank, amen?  (amen)   Now, I really want to encourage you when the other people from LA come and  Chicago people come, take care of them.  Put them up in your home.  Take care  of them, really bond with them. Trust them.  All they are is just brothers  and sisters, you know.  And they are literally coming for only one purpose:   to help you evangelize Indianapolis and Indiana for the Lord, amen?  (amen)  That's the only reason they are coming.  They are not coming because they  like IU or Perdue.  So things are happening on the basketball team there,  amen?  (amen)  They are coming because of the Lord.  And you need to welcome  them in the Lord.   Lastly, need to obey the marking.  You are to have no contact with Ed Powers  or staff or anybody that has decided to be at that other church in opposition  to this church.  If you disobey the marking, then we will be forced to warn  you if your are in our fellowship.  If you leave, then you will be marked.   You are divisive.  I am very serious.  It is an issue of salvation.   As we said in the letter that will be read in all 149 of our churches, our  heart is for Ed to repent.  If he would repent, we would welcome him on back.   Naturally.  I mean, so he sinned.   We have all sinned.  It is a grievous sin,  I'm not trying to minimize it.  I'm just saying who are we to hold anything  for anyone.  But they've got to repent.  (right)  And we've got to be hard  line.  Amen? (amen)   I realize there are some husband/wife situations that are tough.  Some here  and some there.  You that are disciples here, I want you to live the most  stellar life.  I want you to be loving and giving and I want you to blow them  away by your love.  Don't beat on them the truth.  "You've got to come to the  truth."  You just live a life where you are not in the fellowship of  bitterness, but in a fellowship of love.  (amen)  You just brag about the  Lord.  You just brag about the Lord's church.  You will get them over here.   They will come to faith, amen?  (amen)   I realize there are some parents don't have their children, children don't  have their parents.  That's extra tough.  This is where you heart's going to  be tested.  Are you going to stand for the Lord?  I know I took that stand  when I was first baptized.  It's tough.  But God didn't make it easier because  I was 17, it just had to be done.  Amen?  (amen)   So, you gotta obey the marking.  Anybody saying those people are lost, I  believe Ed Powers and those that stand with him are the lost....(inaudible)  since they left the church.  (that's right)  Well, if they come back.....the  issue isn't baptism, the issue is what they stand for, what they live for,  what they teach and what they believe and what they propagate.  They have set  themselves   Tape 2 Side 2   ...in opposition against the Lord's anointed.  First they grumbled against  the Lord  himself.  That's the issue.  When you fall into that state, as in  Numbers, as in 1 Cor. 10, you fall from the state of grace.   How about the people who are undecided?  Well, they have not fallen out of  grace yet.  Those are the ones we have got to snatch.  (that's right)  And I  beg you, don't get a bad attitude toward bad attitudes.  And, secondly, don't  get self-righteous.  "We got the truth."  That's not going to do any good.   Just say, "you know something?  I've learned a lot.  I learned I've got to be  humble.  I learned I've got to love.  I learned I've got to forgive and also --  here's some doctrines I think we got to talk about and hammer off..."  No,  don't get self-righteous.  You are not better than them.  Just that the grace  of God covers you, amen?  (amen)  But let's be understanding.  This is an  issue of salvation. There is not two churches of God in this town.  There is  but one and there will always be but one. Amen?  (amen)   You know, it's kind of interesting.  In a couple of months, matter of fact,  May 31st, I turn 40 years old.  A lot of people get worried about that.  I'm  not.  The other day I went to pick up my kids at tennis--they're in a tennis  academy--and I went with Scott Green just 2 days ago.  And I said, "Hey, I  want to pay for these things."  And she says "Oh, are you the university  kids?"  Scott and I look and I go, "No, no, no, I'm the father of the 3 kids."   She goes, "oh, oh."  I go, "that's okay.  It's a mistake anybody could make."   (laughter)  It's okay.  I understand mistakes like that.  (laughter)   You know, out in Los Angeles, they're real big on the movies and the theater.   And a couple months ago, Elena loves to particularly go see musicals.  Wanted  to go see this musical, this new musical called "Sunset Blvd."  I didn't know  really what it was about.  And Sunset Blvd. is a very famous street in L.A.   It's where all the clubs are at, all the happenings.  Supposedly in the olden  days and even now it's called the strip, Sunset Strip.  And I didn't  understand it until I got to it and what "Sunset Blvd." is about is ... (away  from microphone) ... they talk about all the actors on Sunset Blvd. fame.  But  Sunset Blvd. means the sunset of their lives and how their glory days.  I  tell you something, I mean, the audience laughed at the jokes here and there  but by the end of that musical, you looked at a bunch of people that were  down.  Because they understood the point of the musical-- how sad it is when  people's glory is hung up on their past and they have nothing to look forward  to. 40 years old--doesn't bother me.  See, I get to play in the master  basketball league.  (laughter)   See, in L.A., see, we have two basketball leagues.  And we have 10 regions  and so we've got the masters league, which you gotta be 35 years or older to  be in the masters league.  And then we have the young men's league, the boys  league, we call the open for the younger guys.  Guys like Corey. Thomas Rooks  couldn't be in masters.  I mean, he's too young.  He's a boy.  (boooo)  See,  I get to be in the masters league.  Made the all star team.  (ooooh, laughter)   40 years old, you know, right before I turn 40, my daughter turns 13.  Scary  thought.  (laughter)  She had taken some pictures recently for her Miss Pre- Teen California contest that she's entering.  I look at those pictures and she  had gotten all fixed up, you know.  (laughter)  I look at those things and I  said, "that's my daughter?"  I mean the curves are coming.  I go, "Oh, boy.   I'm going to have to beat back the brothers now.  Here's this....this is going  to be rough."   But you know something, it's so awesome.  And the title of the sermon was  "The Dream is Still Alive."  Of course, Martin Luther King gave the speech "I  have a dream."  So, I'm riding back and I got Shawn in the car and Eric in the  car and another young boy named Andrea, who is the son of Marvin and Lillian  Jones, and they happen to be a black couple.  And prayerfully, Marvin will be  our first black elder in the L.A. church.  (yea!)  So I'm just kind of taking  Andrea in the .... a little bit and Andrea is 11 and Shawn is 11, going on to  be 12 and Eric is 9, and I'm going, "well, guys, what do you think about  Corey's sermon?"   "Oh, it's great."  Shawn goes, "well, dad, what would you  grade it?" I said, "no, no, no, no.  You grade it."  "Oh, it was an A."   "Andrea, what did you think?"  "Oh,  an A."  "Eric?"  "A-.  I don't know, it  was missing a little bit, you know."  (laughter)   "I appreciate your honesty, son.  Well, let me ask you this, what did you get  out of it?"   "Well, you've gotta have a dream, dad."  "I know that, I'm asking you guys  what you got out of it in there?  I'm asking you.  What's your dreams?"   Eric goes, "well, you know what my dream is."  He had just done this report  on Martin Luther King and had to dress up as M.L.King, a little moustache and  everything.  He had to pretend to be M.L.King and speak about his life for 12  minutes.  He says, "well, you know me, dad.  I made the decision I'm going to  be a preacher like M. L. King and you."   And I go, "well, I appreciate that, son.  (laughter)  How about you, Andrea?"   Andrea's parents were raised in a black church of Christ--only you church of  Christers fully understand that.  He says, "well, my dream is to be a full  time paid preacher."  (laughter)  "That's good, Andrea.  Good.  Full time  paid, huh?  Well, Shawn, how about you?"   "Well, I have a dream."  I said, "what is it, son?"  "I want to be the World  Sector Leader that leads the World Sector Leaders."  (laughter)  "Well now,  son, the Lord's got to choose you for that sort of thing and, you know, it  would be a little bit unlikely someone as young--I think it'd be a good  ambition just to be a leader in the kingdom."  He said, "okay, I'll be that."   You know, it was cool. Here's 3 little guys, 2 of them my sons, their best  buddy being Andrea and he's black.  Shawn and Eric are half white and half  Latin.  And they are best buddies, chumming together,  critiquing Corey's  sermon.  (laughter)  But they got a dream.  All 3 of them are real good  little athletes.  Report cards coming out last time, all three kids got  straight A's in my family.  It's their dreams, it's their aspirations.  Shawn,  Eric, Andrea they want to be preachers.  Now, not everybody can be a  preacher. That's a gift the Lord gives you and you may not have it.  But  you're a great dreamer.  40 years old. Sunset Blvd.  I'm not worried about  it.  I'm in the masters.  (laughter)  All star team.   Bruce Williams is the coach because he's the coach of Orange County and I'm  on the Orange County team.  I said, "you know, Bruce, you know who got you to  be coach?  (laughter)  Kind of like starting, you know."  (laughter)  See, 40  doesn't worry me.  Because as a Christian there is no Sunset Blvd.  (that's  right)  See, I'm naive to believe that the greatest thing is not putting a  basketball through a basketball hoop.  The greatest things are not straight  A's.  The greatest thing is not becoming president of IBM.  The greatest thing  is not even finding the man or the girl of your dreams.  The greatest thing is  knowing God.  (amen)  The purpose of my life is not achievement of worldly  things or fame or title.  The purpose of my life is to have other people to  know my father in heaven.  This is my life, and if I live it, this will make  my life happy.  Sunset Blvd.?  Here's what I honestly believe.  I believe that  when the true Christians, the disciple, dies he goes to heaven. (amen)  And  that is the land of milk and honey.  Down here, life is hard.  And then you  die.    As Hebrews 12 talks about, be careful that you do not allow anyone to miss  the grace of God because of bitterness produced from hardship.  Hardship there  was for the Israelites.  That was the test.  Many of them failed.  They got  bitter instead of better.  This whole Indianapolis thing, I was a little bit  amused, but not in a bad way.  I came up and I saw one of the brothers and I  said, "are you from Indianapolis?"  He goes, "oh no, no.  I'm from Chicago."   (laughter)   You know, this thing in Indianapolis is going to be a chapter in our history.   (inaudible)...that's what the story is about.  The story is about those who  made it.   It seems like it's about other people on the surface, but it's not  really about them.  It's about those who remained faithful.  It's about Moses  and Aaron.....  Indianapolis is a great.....  I can't change it.  I was born  there.  I've got to be proud. Indiana is a great state.  It's awesome to be  here.  But the hour requires repentance and forgiveness. But the hour  requires decision, without sentimentality.  You should be proud that you're  in the Indianapolis Int'l church.  (amen)  But out in Chicago, he's in the  Indianapolis church, too.  You're in the Lord's church.  (amen)  No one is  going to be afraid to identify with you.  I'm proud to be here in  Indianapolis.  (amen)  And those around us are proud of you.   But now is the time to be faithful.  Because I honestly believe like a child,  when I die, I go to heaven. Just like a .... and that's the test.  Am I going  to get bitter?  Or better?  See, I'm almost 40.  I'm getting better.  I'm in  the masters.  (laughter)  Hopefully a starter.  (laughter)  My daughter is  about to become a teenager.  And I know she'll also become a disciple.  (amen)   My sons, ah, they'll be preachers.  They'll be good ones.  I'm proud of them.   It's great to turn 40.  How many years the Lord gives me, that's how many  years I'll work for him.  And then, the land of milk and honey.  God bless  you.  (amen)   

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